[Magnifyit]

ok so this question is a lil bit more for the pro's around here.

so here i am, hearing all the biggest artist using those various kicks from the Vengence Big library.
ok cool, i'm putting those kicks into my mix and somehow.. the mix doesnt sound good.
i go and check with VariAudio or Melodyne if there is a note on the kick, and there is'nt.

i've seen some interviews by artist and they say tune your kick.
also i can hear in tracks that on the kick there is some kind of little bass and this makes the whole track sound diffrent.

so my question is, how the hell do i add this bass to the kick without destroying all the mix?

sorry if my english a lilttle poor.

thanks

[Ferio]

Put some a sine wave on your kick, also layering kicks with a nice click and bottom end can be good and compress it together.

As for tuning, they can tune their kick to the key it is in. Put some spectrum analyser on your kick and freeze (if possible) it when it reach its highest peak and check the frequency it is in and then you have the key. I've noticed that a lot of artists put everything in key, even percussion and it does help to say.

But EQ is also a big thing in all of this, dont forget that. )))

It's a lot of trial and error. Even pro artists can spend a lot of time on this.

This post has been edited by Ferio: 11 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

[Kevin Charm]

Don't bother tuning your kick, unless you're producing hip hop. Just find some good samples to begin with...

[boohoo]

Kevin Charm, on 11 January 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Don't bother tuning your kick, unless you're producing hip hop.

Don't agree with this, even just + or - 1 semitone could make all the difference.

[Lethyx]

Good compression and EQ'ing. Compression lets you boost up the 'punch of the kick' while slightly, slightly decreasing the bass thud after the punch giving more room for the rest of the mix.

[Marcioz Pollack]

Lethyx, on 11 January 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Good compression and EQ'ing. Compression lets you boost up the 'punch of the kick' while slightly, slightly decreasing the bass thud after the punch giving more room for the rest of the mix.

Also put the eq always after the compression

[jontron]

Sample selection. Just choose a sample that works well and if you have to, pitch it up or down a semitone or two until it's in. Some kicks are much less subjective to pitch than others though - so don't worry too much.

People worry too much about pitching drums IMO. It's important don't get me wrong - but you should just be able to correct it using your ears. If you have to use plug-ins you're over thinking it.

[Vlake]

One of the things I re-discovered recently was the Time Envelope editor under the INS tab on FL.

With it, it is possible to sculpt the samples to fit your needs, I like to have a really Punchy kick but don't like the Thud part, so it is possible to remove it by decreasing the Decay or Hold time accordingly, if you need some more insight, let us know .

[adamcostellomusic]

Kevin Charm, on 11 January 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Don't bother tuning your kick, unless you're producing hip hop. Just find some good samples to begin with...

I think maybe actually fine tuning your percussion to the Key is maybe putting yourself at risk of over-processing because of un-naturally changing the sound. I would say just use your ears to find the percussion that suits your track best rather than drastically altering samples which would make them sound worst. But hey...see what it sounds like after processing.

[jair]

@marcioz, not always put eq after compression imo. i firts put eq to cut. then compression, then eq again to boost (if you want to boost anything)!!

[Tazman]

The thing with it all is DON'T make it more complicated than it needs to be. I spent well over a year making S*** kicks because of people telling me to "layer" them well. Although it can be done well, it takes A LOT of practice to start picking the right sounds which will fit your kick AND importantly on top of that fit the bass in your mixdown.

I suggest pick a nice kick which you think sounds nice overall. I.e. A nice low presence (the sub bit), good punch and it will cut through the mix. (Vengeance has plenty) I've started using Wave Alchemey Minimal & Tech pack and that has some nice kicks but start off with vengeance. Aim to use this kick on it's own.

Of course this won't always suit the track and you will need to EQ the kick boosting the low freqs (look where it's peaking between 50-60Hz with an analyser) but don't boost them so the kick becomes boomy. You want it tight and punchy. Also compress your sample. I usually use about a 19.5 threshold so as not to lose the low freqs and then a small ratio of about 2.5.1 and quite a big attack to get it punching and tight. Compress before EQ

Listen how the kick works in the track, does it compliment and sound at one with the bassline?

If you're still not happy with the kick then change the sample. OR if you think it's the right sample it just lacks some freqs to fit your bassline THEN look into layering a kick with a nice low end. It definitely complicates things however as you'll have to EQ both the kicks putting them together like a puzzle, (cutting the lows in the original kick to let the new lows come through, cutting the highs in the new one to let the old one punch through) etc THEN send them to a bus together and compress them.

It's all practice and things will click but that how I get my Kicks!

Nooby but awesome option: look through your music library, listen to a track you love the kick in, find an extended mix of the track and you might be lucky to find a section with the kick playing on it's own, drag it into your project and cut the kick out and use it in your track, it's a bad habit to get into but i've done it once before and the kick sounds mighty fine (I still EQd it to my tastes) After all Vengeance kicks are all sampled like this anyway!

Really hope that's helpful!

This post has been edited by Tazman: 25 January 2012 - 12:13 PM

[redsun]

Ferio, on 11 January 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

As for tuning, they can tune their kick to the key it is in. Put some spectrum analyser on your kick and freeze (if possible) it when it reach its highest peak and check the frequency it is in and then you have the key.

Use the free Melda EQ, in analize mode displays the note of the highest peaks.

[Joel_]

Tazman, on 25 January 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

The thing with it all is DON'T make it more complicated than it needs to be. I spent well over a year making S*** kicks because of people telling me to "layer" them well. Although it can be done well, it takes A LOT of practice to start picking the right sounds which will fit your kick AND importantly on top of that fit the bass in your mixdown.

I suggest pick a nice kick which you think sounds nice overall. I.e. A nice low presence (the sub bit), good punch and it will cut through the mix. (Vengeance has plenty) I've started using Wave Alchemey Minimal & Tech pack and that has some nice kicks but start off with vengeance. Aim to use this kick on it's own.

Of course this won't always suit the track and you will need to EQ the kick boosting the low freqs (look where it's peaking between 50-60Hz with an analyser) but don't boost them so the kick becomes boomy. You want it tight and punchy. Also compress your sample. I usually use about a 19.5 threshold so as not to lose the low freqs and then a small ratio of about 2.5.1 and quite a big attack to get it punching and tight. Compress before EQ

Listen how the kick works in the track, does it compliment and sound at one with the bassline?

If you're still not happy with the kick then change the sample. OR if you think it's the right sample it just lacks some freqs to fit your bassline THEN look into layering a kick with a nice low end. It definitely complicates things however as you'll have to EQ both the kicks putting them together like a puzzle, (cutting the lows in the original kick to let the new lows come through, cutting the highs in the new one to let the old one punch through) etc THEN send them to a bus together and compress them.

It's all practice and things will click but that how I get my Kicks!

Nooby but awesome option: look through your music library, listen to a track you love the kick in, find an extended mix of the track and you might be lucky to find a section with the kick playing on it's own, drag it into your project and cut the kick out and use it in your track, it's a bad habit to get into but i've done it once before and the kick sounds mighty fine (I still EQd it to my tastes) After all Vengeance kicks are all sampled like this anyway!

Really hope that's helpful!

Great advice.

[djlavisse]

Marcioz Pollack, on 11 January 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Also put the eq always after the compression

+1

If you EQ first, then you undo your work with a compressor being put after it.

[Matt BK]

That's what I do to make a kick:

1) Choose the right sample(s)
2) Insert into the project
3) Does it sound good? No -> go to step 1; Yes -> go to step 4
4) Do some minor EQing if needed (roll off everything below 20-25Hz, add or cut no more that 2-3dB in some areas)
5) Can you hear the initial click of your sample? If not, add some attack on SPL Transient Designer and/or clean up your mix
6) Can you separate the sub tail from the subbass? Or it's a complete mess? Sidechain your bass to the kick (trigger) to make sure nothing's clashing in the sub area
7) now you haz an AWZUM kickkkk!!!!!111

PS. I don't compress Vengeance kicks

This post has been edited by Matt BK: 25 January 2012 - 07:23 PM

[Benne Z]

Magnifyit, on 11 January 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

so my question is, how the hell do i add this bass to the kick without destroying all the mix?

You can steal some out of the bass track, essentially.

Solo the kick drum and sweep around a narrow band of EQ boost on the kick until you find where you want the main body of it to be. Take a note of the frequency where that is. Then remove the EQ. Now add an EQ on the bass track and cut a narrow band (a Q of 10 or more and about 6db of cut, but you'll need to use your ears to find an exact setting) at that same frequency.

Play both tracks together and your kick drum will have more clarity. When the kick drops out, you can use automation to take some of the EQ out to keep the bass from feeling "thin" when there is no kick.

[ThomasHayesMusic]

jair, on 25 January 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

@marcioz, not always put eq after compression imo. i firts put eq to cut. then compression, then eq again to boost (if you want to boost anything)!!

+1 eq always first IMO

[Tygris]

multiband distortion... distort the click layer through a bus channel with an over drive, bit crusher . or what i usually use which is ohmcide works perfectly. on top of that use the Waves rAAX compressor on the kick + bass bus.

take your time with adjusting the distortion because it can sound really terrible if u have added too much.

[Pineda]

Matt BK, on 25 January 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

That's what I do to make a kick:

1) Choose the right sample(s)
2) Insert into the project
3) Does it sound good? No -> go to step 1; Yes -> go to step 4
4) Do some minor EQing if needed (roll off everything below 20-25Hz, add or cut no more that 2-3dB in some areas)
5) Can you hear the initial click of your sample? If not, add some attack on SPL Transient Designer and/or clean up your mix
6) Can you separate the sub tail from the subbass? Or it's a complete mess? Sidechain your bass to the kick (trigger) to make sure nothing's clashing in the sub area
7) now you haz an AWZUM kickkkk!!!!!111

PS. I don't compress Vengeance kicks

This....

And i would personally emphasize this:

Matt BK, on 25 January 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

PS. I don't compress Vengeance kicks